SharePoint Wikis vs OneNote vs Word vs Modern Pages

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Danny Ryan:Hello and welcome to the Two Bald Brothers and a Microphone Podcast. This is your host, Danny Ryan. I am here with Tommy Ryan, the other bald brother. How are you doing, Tommy?


Tommy Ryan:I’m doing well.


Danny Ryan:Good. What are you drinking this morning?


Tommy Ryan:It’s a grande flat white with coconut milk.


Danny Ryan:All right.


Tommy Ryan:Yes, my favorite.


Danny Ryan:All right. I’ve gone dairy free.


Tommy Ryan:Yeah.


Danny Ryan:I don’t know whether …


Tommy Ryan:Well not really, but for a coffee drinks I usually.


Danny Ryan:Coffee drinks usually do. Yeah, I know Deanna, I think she’s lactose intolerant. I don’t know if that’s the same thing. I think I just have an allergy to diary. I did the whole 30 thing for a while, and what you do is you cut out a bunch of things and you start adding things for a couple days and see how your body reacts to it. When I introduced dairy back into the diet, the day after I did it, I woke up that next morning and I felt like I had a hangover.


Tommy Ryan:Yeah.


Danny Ryan:Just my body was not reacting right to it, and so it may have been something to do with the bottle of wine that I drank as well, but that was …


Tommy Ryan:Yeah, it’s called a confounding factor.


Danny Ryan:I introduced milk and wine back into my … No, it’s very difficult for me though because I just recognize how many things were, like I love ice cream. Oh my goodness, I enjoy ice cream, and then what I’ve done in the morning is I’m now having the almond milk, which isn’t too bad with cereal. I’m not going to drink it straight up, but yeah. I just feel a lot better without diary, so I guess it’s just more like an allergy type thing, but it’s tough to cut out. I mean it’s amazing how many things do have diary in it. You have a little bit of caffeine in you this morning.


Tommy Ryan:I do.


Danny Ryan:Did you see any of the write ups from the Apple event yesterday?


Tommy Ryan:No, I watched some of it, and …


Danny Ryan:I plan on going all over the place this morning, sorry.


Tommy Ryan:Okay.


Danny Ryan:I’m just warning you.


Tommy Ryan:Yeah, what was interesting to me was the watch features, basically fine AFib, and then also the ECG capability. I think those are some powerful things. I don’t know how relevant that is in terms of heart health monitoring, what aspects of monitoring are the key measures to keep on top of your heart health, but I think that’s going to attract a lot of people that are, you know, in their 50s and above, maybe 40s and above, that want to stay on top of a heart incident.


Danny Ryan:Yeah, I use something. I’m a FitBit Versa, and I primarily, my focus for my Smartwatch, I want it to … The battery life’s really important to me, and then I just use it for the fitness. Really, the fitness features and the other thing is the notifications. I like that you can set it up to say which notifications come from your phone over to your FitBit, so that ends up working well for me.


Tommy Ryan:Yeah.


Danny Ryan:Beyond that, I see a lot of the things. I had an Apple watch for a while and then just, it was … I think I was at a point where I just got tired of charging. I felt like it was a, my role in life was to keep all my Apple devices charged. You just get into habits.


Tommy Ryan:Yeah, I just got in the habit. I’ve got a stand that has the watch that you can kind of set it on it’s side, and it has some cables that come out the front, they’re USB ports that you can connect multiple short cables, and so my AirPod, phone, and Apple watch all get charged at night.


Danny Ryan:Okay.


Tommy Ryan:The watch sometimes won’t make it a day now. I’ve got a Series 1, so I’ve had mine for quite a while.


Danny Ryan:Oh really, that’s a first series.


Tommy Ryan:Yeah.


Danny Ryan:Okay. Are you going to look at the 4?


Tommy Ryan:I’d like to. I mean it’s starting to, it’s definitely very laggy. When I bring up the alarms, built-in app, it takes forever for it to show up and allow me to pick and configure an alarm. My most used feature on the watch is setting timers and the alarm in the morning. Got to get up before Linda and not having a regular alarm, but an alarm that buzzes my arm allows me to get up without waking up Linda in the morning.


Danny Ryan:Nice, yeah. I can do this, I mean I’ve got that as well. Then, I’ve got a special clock face that tells me the temperature outside, and my beats per minute. I think though the other thing as well with this is I like the, steps are so simple. I mean I understand, I had the closing rings before, but it’s a little bit just vague, like I … I like, I’ve been really getting into trying to set daily goals, and I think that’s one of them that I know, just like I set that step goal and it really helps me. I try to do over 60 minutes, I mean technically my goal is over 30 minutes a day, but I try to do over 60 minutes a day of some form of exercise. That’s typically, like I did a walk this morning, and so it’s going out for a walk is …


Tommy Ryan:Right.


Danny Ryan:I just enjoyed, like this morning I ended up taking Conner out to the bus, and I’ve never done this before, but I just went for a walk right after bringing him out to the bus. His bus comes at 6:22 typically, which is really early. It’s nice just walking around the neighborhood.


Tommy Ryan:Right.


Danny Ryan:It was a nice little walk. You’re getting ready, so you’ve got … I always get the two mixed up, Inspire.


Tommy Ryan:Ignite.


Danny Ryan:No, Ignite, coming up.


Tommy Ryan:Envision.


Danny Ryan:Envision.


Tommy Ryan:Which is the same week as Ignite, which is interesting.


Danny Ryan:It is.


Tommy Ryan:There’s some people that are going to both, trying to flip flop going to …


Danny Ryan:What’s it, so the Ignite’s in Orlando, right?


Tommy Ryan:Orlando, I don’t know where Envision is. It might be Orlando.


Danny Ryan:Okay.


Tommy Ryan:I’m not sure to tell you the truth. I haven’t looked that up, but I know some people that I’m reaching out to, or saying either I’m not going to Ignite and going to Envision, and some that are saying first half of the week Ignite, second half Envision.


Danny Ryan:Is Envision, that’s the dynamics one?


Tommy Ryan:Mm-hmm (affirmative)


Danny Ryan:Okay. Yeah, that’s one we haven’t, we’ve never been to that one.


Tommy Ryan:Yeah, a lot of the SharePoint people that I thought would be at Ignite are, there’s a good number that are going to Envision.


Danny Ryan:Are they transitioning over to do more dynamics work?


Tommy Ryan:They got the short stick, I don’t know, for the conference. I don’t know. Some of them, they’re basically saying we’re trying to divide between, and you know they’re kind of comment was, “I would have been at Ignite if Envision didn’t fall on the same week.”


Danny Ryan:Then I’ve seen a lot of the emails going back and forth, just trying to meet up with other partners down there, and probably … You’re going with Pete and with Kirk.


Tommy Ryan:Kirk, yeah.


Danny Ryan:Right.


Tommy Ryan:Yeah, I used LinkedIn, that’s kind of gone through about half of it, just seeing contacts I want to meet up with and gosh, it’s a great exercise to think about who I need to talk to because you get relationships that, really strong relationships, and you get busy.


Danny Ryan:Yeah.


Tommy Ryan:They fall back into the back pile of emails, and you start going through and looking at your contacts, it reminds you of some people that you want to still be in contact with.


Danny Ryan:Mm-hmm (affirmative), absolutely. How far off is … That’s a couple weeks?


Tommy Ryan:It’s not this week, but next week.


Danny Ryan:Okay.


Tommy Ryan:Yeah.


Danny Ryan:You guys are driving down there for it?


Tommy Ryan:Mm-hmm (affirmative)


Danny Ryan:Okay.


Tommy Ryan:Yeah, I’m driving with Linda. She’s got her brother that’s down there.


Danny Ryan:Okay.


Tommy Ryan:We’re going to visit before, no I think after. I can’t remember. I think it’s before, yeah, because we’ve got to be back for a wedding, and then Kirk and Pete I think are driving too. They’re driving together.


Danny Ryan:Nice.


Tommy Ryan:It’s not too far away.


Danny Ryan:The update so far to the Café and stuff that we, that you’ve seen Pete and I are working on, any comments, any things that you’ve seen that have come up, that are good, bad, or nother? Sort of like how is this, and I think you’ve … A part of you are looking at it from, not an outsider looking in, but you’re … Pete and I are going after a couple things together, and then sort of letting the group know what’s going on. Is there, we’re still heavily relying on Teams for a lot of things, I know. We’ve been also subtly trying to pull a little bit of the SharePoint and the modern experience into what we’re doing. You’re still primarily in Teams, I’m assuming right now.


Tommy Ryan:Yeah, and I am, but as I look at how things are starting to gel and come together as it relates to the SharePoint side of it. I know hub sites are very simple, but I do like the concept of going there and it being the launching point into relevant content that can be rolled up, kind of a roll up capability is something you don’t have in Teams, and so that’s, I think, nice and just navigation. I can go to the sales hub and get to the different Teams that way.


The reason I probably am in Teams more is at the end of the day, a lot of your work that’s getting done is updating documents, at least what I’m doing. I’m working with MSAs and SOWs and those things. You definitely want to be in the team. That’s where you kind of get more value.


Danny Ryan:Yeah.


Tommy Ryan:Is team conversations around that. I do think the knowledge base, the things that are a longstanding information, that you want to curate, the Teams is not an environment for that. I mean Teams is very close to Yammer, so that’s a feed that has a certain lifespan, and yeah you can use Teams to navigate and get into SharePoint content, but you can do that from SharePoint as well, or better, so Teams is not necessarily the best UI to get into SharePoint, but it helps from the standpoint of having less tools that you bring up. I can get into Planner. I can get into SharePoint. I can go through my conversations and stay in one tool.


Danny Ryan:I saw, I was doing a little bit of research on different, like what’s the next types of migrations we can go after, and I saw a comment in Corra, because I think Corra’s kind of cool, just to go see what other people are putting out there. One of the questions I was reading was sort of had to do with Enterprise Social Networks, and the comment from the guy was basically like, “Okay, Hip Chat’s going away and there’s just Social Cast,” which is just another, it’s sort of like the Enterprise Network, and they were like, “What’s, is this boding pore for sort of in general for what are happening with Enterprise Social Network,” and the guy, there was a thoughtful response from somebody, sort of his take on what’s happening right now, which is companies like Sales Force and Microsoft are sort of recognizing that social is just like, it’s more like a feature than it is a product, and less emphasizing it as a sort of this is the product that we’re going out to the world with, and more of, well you’re social with everything. I mean that’s how work is done and it’s getting more integrated.


It was interesting for the person to sort of talk about, because he talked about Slack, and sort of like a, that’s how Slack, about Slack’s adoption, and then about Microsoft’s response, which is trying to take an approach where it’s the one place, sort of pulling all of the disparate services together into more of a central place that you’re going to, to get work done, and typically get work done within Teams, which makes sense. It was just interesting to see sort of his response to what’s happening right now, which is the social features or sort of just becoming ingrained to sort of the products that we’re using and are out there right now. I still, I think we’ve been having a lot of good conversations about … This was going into this project, which I’m referring to Project Cobbler, what we’re calling Project Cobbler, which was the … Some of the content we have is stuff that we’re just working on right now, which might be in a team, and then there’s some content that is longterm, that needs to be in a place that I can go refer to again, which now, I think we’re moving towards the mode of keeping those in modern pages.


Tommy Ryan:Right.


Danny Ryan:The issues right now with putting it in a Teams Wiki is it’s not searchable from the Web, and you have to be in Teams to actually get to it. The discussion stuff, we’ve had this discussion before, but that’s again, another place that you have to, you store it in Microsoft Teams, and it’s not accessible from the Web based interface. It will be interesting to see, because I think eventually what Microsoft will probably do is probably have that content, the discussions and some of the stuff that’s going on in Teams, is having either a Web part, or some way of seeing it from the Web, but some way of integrating this whole experience together. Right now it still feels a little disparate.


Tommy Ryan:Mm-hmm (affirmative), yeah, which it always will be.


Danny Ryan:Yeah.


Tommy Ryan:Yeah, it’s tough when there’s more choices.


Danny Ryan:What would be interesting would be maybe taking, what are the … I talked to Pete about this, which was taking our old Wiki data, you know we used to store things in traditional Wiki pages, and migrating that over into modern pages, which seems to be the way that we want to store longterm information. I think that will be, right now we’re going to manually one off do those, take things and move things over, but longterm I think that’s the place where a lot of this content is going to be. The modern Wiki is a modern SharePoint page.


Tommy Ryan:Yeah.


Danny Ryan:Sorry, I think out loud when we’re here for a while.


Tommy Ryan:When you look at …


Danny Ryan:This was something that we were, going into this project, I was trying to figure out, which is right now if you’re working together as a team, and you need to store Wiki based content, it’s in OneNote. That’s where it is.


Tommy Ryan:Yeah.


Danny Ryan:Then longterm, if there’s content that needs to go into a certain place, that you might move it over into a modern page, or move it to a place where we’re storing more of like knowledge based type information.


Tommy Ryan:Right.


Danny Ryan:As you said rightfully last time, a lot of this content just goes stale over time, and extract out what we need to, to put on our public website. We just take what we need to from it, but not all of it’s going to be relevant in the future.


Tommy Ryan:Yeah, I look at it, some of the challenges we have for being a small company and looking at how do we approach a migration is, there’s just, I think we have this temptation of we want to clean up as much as we can, and in a larger scale migration effort a migration team just can’t do that. They’ve got to almost just migrate it all, and not … Unless there’s some very high level factors that they can take into consideration, like the last time it’s been updated. If they want to say, “Anything that’s been updated longer than three years from now, we’re going to archive it.” Having those more coarse grain filters to put into place is effective, but I think where we struggle, or at least where I struggle is I look at, “Oh, there’s probably in this technology Wiki, there’s probably only 10% that should come forward.” Well, how do you get to that 10% and how much time do you spend before you say, “Well we’re better off just bringing it all over,” or “We’re better off archiving it and having it available and just starting from scratch.” You kind of get into those scenarios.


We, and it blows our mind when we have some companies come to us too late to migrate and they say, “Well, we’re just going to start from scratch,” and we think that’s crazy, but you can kind of … At our scale, sometimes you can see, depending on what your knowledge is, sometimes it changes so quickly that knowledge that’s three years old is not useful anymore, except for, I think more company oriented information, like the stuff around your benefits, the stuff around certain forms that drive your organization.


Danny Ryan:I think that’s the key. That’s one of the things I’m learning out of this is that there’s content that you need to work to get things done in Teams and on projects and things like that, but I think as strategy, I might have taken that a little bit differently in the past, is trying to … Maybe we tried to do this with the Wiki stuff, but almost just having like you’re separating it off into something that is a place that … It’s so tough because you’re asking people to think about, is this content … Like technology stuff, it will change after a year. Some of it they don’t know when it expires.


Tommy Ryan:Right.


Danny Ryan:For the company, like for operations things, for things that we know have to stay around for a while. One of the things I was thinking about doing was creating a marketing operations manual, and just create, like setting it up as a manual that … These are all the things like, this is how you do this, this is how you do this. It’s stuff that I know I’m doing over and over, process wise, and that I need to keep going forward and sort of separating it off to someplace that I know will be retained and will be moved forward, which that might be a good example of this is why you’d want to put it in a document versus a Wiki, right?


Tommy Ryan:Mm-hmm (affirmative)


Danny Ryan:You might say, “Okay, let’s describe, let’s create a …” Instead of a bunch of Wiki pages, which each one describes, okay this is how you publish a blog post, or this is how you updated this social network, or just all these sort of things, maybe I should be putting it into one operations manual as opposed to putting it into Wiki pages, so that I know it moves forward, and I’m updating that document versus going in and making a Wiki for it.


Tommy Ryan:Right.


Danny Ryan:Does that make sense?


Tommy Ryan:Well yeah. I think, as we’re looking at people that come to us the last minute to migrate, I’m thinking about, “How do we have a fast track for them?” How do we take people that come to us with a month left or two months left, and the project is really three to six months long, how do we compress that timeline, and what shortcuts can we take? What comes to mind is like take all the document content, which is simple to migrate and even stage, maybe even outside of SharePoint if you had to, and then your collaboration, your collaborative documents that are Jive, turn them into pdfs, and okay, we take those two things out, and those are the core of your knowledge. Yes, you’ve got discussions. Yes, you’ve go this, but it’s kind of the 80/20 rule. Let’s get the 20% if that’s going to have the 80% impact on your organization, and yeah it’s not pretty. You’re going to maybe lose some things, but in the grand scheme of things you probably won’t miss it. It’s probably going to be good enough for your situation.


Danny Ryan:Mm-hmm (affirmative)


Tommy Ryan:Putting in the documents, I think is more portable format.


Danny Ryan:Yeah.


Tommy Ryan:I think as time passes, and you go from platform to platform, documents are portable. That’s why a lot of times you create them so you can take them outside of the system and send them in an email, so if you have them in that format inside of your Intranet, it’s still searchable. It’s still able to be brought up in the browser, and it’s extremely portable.


Danny Ryan:Yeah, I think we ran into looking at where you have these hybrids, like with Jive where you have a collaborative document. It’s like a hybrid between the two, which was interesting to run into some of those types of things, where it was, what is the content in there? Is that something that needs to move forward or not? Yeah, and I think we’re running into a lot of this social content, what is the value of that? Is it worth the … What does it look like moving forward? Is it worth it for … I know for us, I think a lot of it just needs to be archived, there in case you need to look something up.


Tommy Ryan:Yeah, what I find when I think about social content, and when people look at, “Well I want to move things from Yammer,” or “Move things into Yammer,” from a social network. I think, “Oh gosh, all that stuff is really only valuable within the hours or minutes, or days, at most a couple weeks when that was shared and those conversations took place.” It was there to accelerate decision making, and accelerate collaboration. I think social does that for you. It raises the awareness and visibility to get more people quickly to swarm around a problem, kind of what we saw with Groove back in the day. You say, “Oh, there’s people in this workspace,” and we’d go, “What are they looking at,” and then you’re swarming around a problem.


In terms of going back and looking at that social content in the future, one year from now do I want to look at something that I had a conversation on today. I always thought, no. Where I’m starting to change my mind is well, it’s the social content that surrounded a document, and so if I have an SOW that I was working on three months ago, I can pick up on where was I last, what were the last conversations, to give me some context as I go back into the at document.


Danny Ryan:Isn’t that, wouldn’t that be comments in the document, in an old version that would have comments in it?


Tommy Ryan:It would be comments, yes. It would be, so I mean you could say …


Danny Ryan:Now you have Teams.


Tommy Ryan:For a practice, you know, always put it as comments in the document. What’s clean about comments that are in Teams around a document is you break those comments off. You don’t have to go clean up those comments, and you can keep those comments when you go share it with somebody. Now you could do that. You could go and, into the document, get rid of all the comments and then send it to your client, but the only way you can get those comments back in is you have to go back version, and then start making more comments on it.


I can send multiple versions, and I can go back and see comments pretty quickly without having to go back and revert to a previous version to go see the comments that I deleted in the document.


Danny Ryan:Yeah.


Tommy Ryan:This gives you lightly coupled comments to it that, when you send the document the comments are always stay behind. You don’t have to worry about those comments.


Danny Ryan:Just as long as you’re staying in Microsoft 365, and have Teams you’re fine, but don’t … You can’t move anywhere else.


Tommy Ryan:Yeah, it’s lock in, that type of capability.


Danny Ryan:Yeah, we’re fine with lock in to Microsoft, but … All right, I think that’s, the damage is done for the day. It looks like we have our sales standup, so we’ll wrap it up with that. I appreciate you taking … Anything new that you’ve learned about the Tesla or any updates with the Iron Mountain Organics, or anything last minute?


Tommy Ryan:Oh gosh, I put a blog post out, kind of on the logo creation experience.


Danny Ryan:Nice, it looks great.


Tommy Ryan:I got another one coming up, as I’m taking notes on what is my first year experience with the garden, kind of lessons learned. It’s flying by, it seems like it’s been five years that I’ve been in the garden, but it’s been less than a year since I’ve got the fence up, and I’ve got serious about it, so a lot of things.


Danny Ryan:What are you harvesting right now?


Tommy Ryan:Right now it’s peppers, and I’m starting to do Fall seeding right now. I’ve got some seedlings for beets and chard, and kale, and broccoli, and cauliflower, and cabbage. We’ll see, see how that goes.


Danny Ryan:Well thanks everybody for spending a little bit of time with the Ryan brothers, and appreciate your time and have a wonderful day. Thanks Tommy, for doing this.


Tommy Ryan:Sure.


Danny Ryan:Take care.


Tommy Ryan:Thank you.


Danny Ryan:Bye-bye.


Additional Credits

Intro/Outro Music – Daniel Bassett

Danny RyanSharePoint Wikis vs OneNote vs Word vs Modern Pages

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