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In this Podcast, No Time for a Jive Migration? Try a Data Extraction, we discuss…

2:20General Jive Migration Process
4:35Jive Technical Extraction
7:28Various Extraction Options

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Danny Ryan: It’s Friday, June 28th and today I sit down with Kirk Liemohn and we talk about the situation where you don’t have enough time to pull everything out of Jive and put it into the appropriate place inside of Microsoft 365. We talk about different archives scenarios and things that we can do that allow for people to pull the content out and have it accessible for the future. I’m here with Kirk Liemohn.
Kirk Liemohn: Hello. 


Danny Ryan: Hey Kirk. 


Kirk Liemohn: Hey. 


Danny Ryan: How’s it going? 


Kirk Liemohn: Fine. 


Danny Ryan: You’re a busy management so I appreciate you taking the time to do this- 


Kirk Liemohn: Sure. 


Danny Ryan: … Because I know you’re just really busy. But a part along with that I think, and this might help people, is that talking about this subject which has … I don’t know if it’s becoming somewhat pronounced I guess now, which is people are coming to us to do a migration and there’s not enough time. I mean, a lot of our contents focus around Jive migrations and Tommy and I have been having conversations about other types of migrations to Microsoft 365. 


 And I think some of these approaches that you’re taking here are probably ones that we will even look at in the future as we maybe look at other types of migrations. So this conversation, I’m just really interested to hear what are our options, what are approaches when it comes to the fact that someone needs to be off by this date and we’re not able to do our standard process of how we migrate them out of Jive and into Microsoft 365. You mind talking me through what those options are? 


Kirk Liemohn: Sure. Yeah, our general process … So the utilities we have a allow us to extract content from Jive, and then Jive could even go away at that time after we extract everything. And we generally don’t have it go away right then. We generally still have access to it. We continue to extract last minute so we can get the most recent content. But once we extract from Jive, it could go away and our next step in the process as we transform that content, we’re basically changing links inside there that are pointing to other things. Maybe links to users for sure, and links to other content because it’s going to live in a new place, maybe on SharePoint somewhere. Or maybe we know it’s not going to be migrated and we can kind of have a link to say it’s not going to be migrated. 


Danny Ryan: Okay. 


Kirk Liemohn: And so that’s extract. Then transform and then upload is the next main task. And of course there we’re putting its target environment, typically Microsoft 365, and a lot of that is in SharePoint and sometimes it surfaces in teams in different ways. And then of course after that we have other operations that do validation and things of that nature, and we also migrate permissions. 


 But to do all that takes a bit of work, takes a lot of planning, it takes a lot of communication, takes a lot of discussing with the clients what the options are, making sure that they understand what they’re going to get out of this. And then it also takes a lot of work on the client side to kind of say, “Okay, here’s what I want to be in scope or out of scope.” Here’s what the target site should be maybe for this content for every Jive Place. Maybe we can come up with an algorithm that says, okay, well based on the Jives URL, it’s basically the same similar type of URL that it’s going to and Microsoft 365. 


 But still you have to say what’s in scope and out of scope. Okay. And then we have other options around, like not moving all content even within a place that’s in scope. So maybe you want only the newer stuff to go. But that’s a lot of effort there. So if we’re really tight for time, the quickest thing we can do is an extract, and that extract doesn’t involve as much planning in terms of where is it going, because we have our extract to where it’s going. 


 The technical extract, we call it a technical archive, we give it to the client, it’s part of our process anyways on any migration, we provide it to them. And it has everything we’re able to get out of Jive, which is most of what’s in Jive. And it’s basically a file system and a database and it’s technical, it has to be handed off to someone that knows SQL and we’ll train that person on here’s some SQL queries that lets you kind of find that content. But it also has to be handed off to someone that’s allowed to access all of the Jive data. 


Danny Ryan: Because you have secret space … You have, what is it secret spaces in Jive or like you’ve got- 


Kirk Liemohn: Yeah, secret groups- 


Danny Ryan: Secret groups, okay. 


Kirk Liemohn: … and private groups and you have … the spaces can be certainly permission so that not everyone has access to that. 


Danny Ryan: Not everyone has access to it. 


Kirk Liemohn: So yeah, they have read access to all of this stuff and it could be confidential. 


Danny Ryan: Is there any prep that we need to do before we point in out, like is there any preparatory things that you do set up that you have to do before you point it out?


Kirk Liemohn: Yeah, it does take time still, even that takes time and we can’t pull from Jive in a day probably, if you’ve got a lot of content. Because we’re using the Jive API and the Jive API won’t let us go so fast. So we set up at a migration environment that can take a few days. And we set that up in Azure typically. And then of course we’re going to need information the client, like how do we access Jive. We need administrative account to access Jive basically. And of course the URL. But once we have that, then we’re pretty good to go in terms of extracting stuff into the migration environment. And then the question is, is that enough? 


Danny Ryan: Where do we go from there? 


Kirk Liemohn: Right. You wanted to say, “Okay, you’re off of Jive now. Someone in your organization can now get phone calls from everyone in your organization to go grab a document for them.” 


Danny Ryan: “Can you go to this space? And then in here I need you to read this last discussion about [crosstalk 00:05:54].” 


Kirk Liemohn: That’s right. 


Danny Ryan: “What did I say there? Yeah, can you send me that PDF of …” Yeah, yeah, yeah. 


Kirk Liemohn: Yes. So so all that would be possible. It’s just not scalable for a IT organization to handle requests like that. And of course it’s not timely for the end user to ask for it that way. 


Danny Ryan: You have your content, it’s just locked up in a box. 


Kirk Liemohn: Yeah. So we’ve talked to other clients about making this archive a user accessible archive, whereas permissioned for individual users. We have not done that yet. There’s a couple of approaches there. We’ve even size the effort to make … One approach where we basically take all HTML content in Jive and save it as PDF in the file system. And then we have the file system permissioned by folder, base it by place basically, a folder per Jive Place. And then from then it’s like searching the file system to find your stuff. 


 And so it’s going to have pretty much all the content there and we can even make sure comments are part of that PDF. And PDF fidelity is not always going to be 100% when you transform HTML to PDF, but usually it’s pretty good. So that’s an option that we’ve definitely talked to clients about and the clients would like to have that as an option. Whether they want to pay for it or not- 


Danny Ryan: It’s another thing. 


Kirk Liemohn: … is another question. 


Danny Ryan: What’s funny about this is just the state of … like everybody wants to get off of file shares and wants to do the enterprise social collaboration. Now this is taking that enterprise social collaboration and putting it into a file share. 


Kirk Liemohn: .. file share. If you’ve got to get off Jive quickly and need access for everyone to have, that’s one option. The next one which we’ve explored but haven’t explored very deeply is, we do have this migration environment. We could put a website in front of it and secure it and have people authenticate to it, and then they would only be able to access the stuff. So serve up the information we have. 


Danny Ryan: So the stuff they had access to in Jive, they’ll have access in this environment? 


Kirk Liemohn: Yes, but that doesn’t. 


Danny Ryan: But it’s a read only environment? 


Kirk Liemohn: Right. You would read only, you wouldn’t go in and like someone else’s comment or anything like that, but you would be able to see it and you’d be able to maybe download binaries and stuff like that. 


Danny Ryan: But it’s an archive so that if you need to reference it in the future, you can at least see like the conversations and the content? 


Kirk Liemohn: Right. And both of those approaches have definitely some value for clients and we just haven’t done those approaches. Right now it’s just the technical archive where we hand off a file system and a database to the IT organization and then you can basically go through that organization to get help. We can take that archive later and then migrate it. And we’ve definitely done that before. So we’ve done migrations for clients before where they say, “Okay, only migrate half our content,” whatever it is. And then they come back later and say, “Oh, could you really migrate these three other spaces?” And then we can say, “Yes, we gave you the archive, right? You still have that? Okay, good.” 


Danny Ryan: So you can incrementally go pull something out that you’ve done, that you did before? 


Kirk Liemohn: As long as we’ve extracted it we can do it. 


Danny Ryan: Yeah, yeah. 


Kirk Liemohn: And we have done that before. 


Danny Ryan: Yeah. Interesting. 


Kirk Liemohn: So it’s all there. It’s just a matter of how quick do you need it. And ideally it goes to Microsoft 365, that’s what most people, most enterprises, are in. That’s where they want their users to be. So, it just takes some effort to get it there. We have to transform this Jive HTML, got to get it into kind of SharePoint HTML, got to get it on the right SharePoint site. You’ve got to get the permissions within that SharePoint site. We’ve got to have conversations with the clients about which SharePoint site it goes to. Are you going to merge two Jive Places into a single SharePoint site? Just a lot of conversations that have to happen that don’t have to happen if you’re just talking about, hey, we want an extract. 


Danny Ryan: Yup. It’s been interesting to see some of these too where they’ve come up, where one company’s bought another company and we’ve seen on some of those as well, where we’re trying to pull the company that was bought, their drive instance and into it. 


 So from my understand … Let me see if I can play this back to you. It sounds like it’s not trivial, but the steps that go extract all the data is something that can be done within a relatively short period of time. It’s the question of what do we do from there? It’s a question of if it needs to go somewhere, where is it going? And then if we’re just doing an archive by default, it’s pretty raw. The way that we set it up, it’s a database and a bunch of files in a folder structure. 


 Cool. I mean, it was interesting to see is this addresses our initial problem, which is drive’s going to be turned off at the end of the month and, oh by the way, you want your content and if you think of what the value of that content is, especially for the longer term pieces of content, the content that somebody wants to have access to in the future, it’s the time that somebody spent on working on that document that you’re losing if you don’t get that thing. 


Kirk Liemohn: Right. 


Danny Ryan: If you don’t pull that out. And if it’s a piece of corporate knowledge that you need to have in the future, you have to recreate that. And sometimes that person’s no longer around or- 


Kirk Liemohn: Yeah. Or they can’t remember. 


Danny Ryan: So I think it’s really important for us to have that capability of extracting out the content as soon as we can. And then based upon their needs, where does it go? Ideally I think it goes into, we’re moving it over in Microsoft 365 but I’m glad you guys have some options for people. Because a lot of people are coming and there’s just not … I always tell people I like to have eight to nine months at least. And that’s not the case. 


Kirk Liemohn: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, in the end it does depend on how much content you have, but just getting past the hurdle of a small number of content does take time. So we have to do that prep work and all that other stuff. But we do have a workshop, which I’m sure you’ve mentioned lots of times- 


Danny Ryan: Sure. 


Kirk Liemohn: … and if in that workshop we can discuss things like, well what does the extract have that … Or what does it miss from Jive? So for example, we don’t have homepages. We have content, we don’t have those homepages within Jive Places. There’s a couple other things we don’t have. Status updates like, “I’m going to lunch,” and stuff like that. But in large part we’ve got a lot of what you have in Jive. 


Danny Ryan: Awesome. I’m going to let you get back to your projects because I know you’re busy, man. Thanks so much for spending your time with me, Kirk. 


Kirk Liemohn: You’re welcome. 


Danny Ryan: It’s amazing what you guys are doing on projects- 


Kirk Liemohn: Thanks. 


Danny Ryan: … and keep up the great work. We just talked a little bit earlier with Perry and him working on some of the utilities. It’s amazing what you guys are building out there and the capabilities that you guys are giving to us as an organization to really help people retain that content. Because a lot of this content is really important to these organizations and getting it out as is very important. 


Kirk Liemohn: Yeah. He’s getting one more new piece of content we didn’t have in the extract. I was about to say, “We don’t have this.” And I was like, “Oh wait, Perry just didn’t work tonight.” 


Danny Ryan: He mentioned that earlier, what was it? 


Kirk Liemohn: Bookmarks, I think. 


Danny Ryan: Bookmarks. So he- 


Kirk Liemohn: Yeah, so before we didn’t have those in extract and we now have I think. 


Danny Ryan: Nice, nice. Very good. Keep up the great work. 


Kirk Liemohn: Thanks. 


Danny Ryan: Thanks for doing this. Thanks everybody for listening. Have a great day. Bye bye. 


Kirk Liemohn: Bye. 



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